I know that books can be written about what FAA considers "commercial use"
requiring appropriate certification and what is "incidental", but I'm going
to ask this anyway. Does taking aerial pictures and then using them in
a commercial product constitute a commercial use? If I take a picture of
say a beautiful sunset on top at 7 thousand feet and then make a poster out
of it and sell it, would that violate my private certificate limitations?


Andrey

Andrey Serbinenko wrote:
> I know that books can be written about what FAA considers "commercial use"
> requiring appropriate certification and what is "incidental", but I'm going
> to ask this anyway. Does taking aerial pictures and then using them in
> a commercial product constitute a commercial use? If I take a picture of
> say a beautiful sunset on top at 7 thousand feet and then make a poster out
> of it and sell it, would that violate my private certificate limitations?

That's a good question and one that is not straight forward at all. We
have a local guy here who started an aerial photography business. He
only had a private so he went down to the FSDO and asked if he was ok.
The FSDO told him he was good to go. Personally, it didn't sound very
"incidental" to his business to me but the FSDO said it was so go
figure.

-Robert

> Does taking aerial pictures and then using them in
> a commercial product constitute a commercial use? If I take a picture of
> say a beautiful sunset on top at 7 thousand feet and then make a poster out
> of it and sell it, would that violate my private certificate limitations?

My impressions (and the answers to questions I've asked) have always
been that such use would be considered "incidental" to the business.
Your business is not aviation, it is publishing or photography. It's ok
to use an airplane in support of your business.

I'm sure you could come up with scenarios that would get the FAA to
become as draconian as they have for "sharing costs", but I don't think
you're there yet.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

If I take a picture of
>say a beautiful sunset on top at 7 thousand feet and then make a poster out
>of it and sell it, would that violate my private certificate limitations?
>
>
>Andrey
>
Seem to me you are not carying passengers or cargo for hire. Now if
you have a photographer aboard that pays you ---

Jose wrote:
> I'm sure you could come up with scenarios that would get the FAA to
> become as draconian as they have for "sharing costs", but I don't think
> you're there yet.

what is the story with that? (i understand you can split it if you're
both going, but how the hell do they check?)

If you are the photographer, flying is OK on a private
certificate. If you advertise and take other photographers
"for hire" to get their pictures it is a 135 operation.

If you have a photography business with employees, you can
carry your employee AFAIK as long as the flight is a part of
the job.



"Andrey Serbinenko" > wrote in
message ...
|I know that books can be written about what FAA considers
"commercial use"
| requiring appropriate certification and what is
"incidental", but I'm going
| to ask this anyway. Does taking aerial pictures and then
using them in
| a commercial product constitute a commercial use? If I
take a picture of
| say a beautiful sunset on top at 7 thousand feet and then
make a poster out
| of it and sell it, would that violate my private
certificate limitations?
|
|
| Andrey
|
|

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> If you are the photographer, flying is OK on a private
> certificate. If you advertise and take other photographers
> "for hire" to get their pictures it is a 135 operation.

I thought you could do photo flights under part 91 with a commercial ticket.
(I don't, so it doesn't matter to me)

Yes, that too is allowed, if the owner of the plane hires
you and provides the airplane. The question is private
pilot.
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 119-CERTIFICATION: AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL
OPERATORS
Subpart A-General

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§ 119.1 Applicability.
(a) This part applies to each person operating or intending
to operate civil aircraft-

(1) As an air carrier or commercial operator, or both, in
air commerce; or

(2) When common carriage is not involved, in operations of
U.S.-registered civil airplanes with a seat configuration of
20 or more passengers, or a maximum payload capacity of
6,000 pounds or more.

(b) This part prescribes-

(1) The types of air operator certificates issued by the
Federal Aviation Administration, including air carrier
certificates and operating certificates;

(2) The certification requirements an operator must meet in
order to obtain and hold a certificate authorizing
operations under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter and
operations specifications for each kind of operation to be
conducted and each class and size of aircraft to be operated
under part 121 or 135 of this chapter;

(3) The requirements an operator must meet to conduct
operations under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter and
in operating each class and size of aircraft authorized in
its operations specifications;

(4) Requirements affecting wet leasing of aircraft and other
arrangements for transportation by air;

(5) Requirements for obtaining deviation authority to
perform operations under a military contract and obtaining
deviation authority to perform an emergency operation; and

(6) Requirements for management personnel for operations
conducted under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter.

(c) Persons subject to this part must comply with the other
requirements of this chapter, except where those
requirements are modified by or where additional
requirements are imposed by part 119, 121, 125, or 135 of
this chapter.

(d) This part does not govern operations conducted under
part 91, subpart K (when common carriage is not involved)
nor does it govern operations conducted under part 129, 133,
137, or 139 of this chapter.

(e) Except for operations when common carriage is not
involved conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat
configuration of 20 seats or more, excluding any required
crewmember seat, or a payload capacity of 6,000 pounds or
more, this part does not apply to-

(1) Student instruction;

(2) Nonstop sightseeing flights conducted with aircraft
having a passenger seat configuration of 30 or fewer,
excluding each crewmember seat, and a payload capacity of
7,500 pounds or less, that begin and end at the same
airport, and are conducted within a 25 statute mile radius
of that airport; however, for nonstop sightseeing flights
for compensation or hire conducted in the vicinity of the
Grand Canyon National Park, Arizona, the requirements of
SFAR 50-2 of this part or 14 CFR part 119, as applicable,
apply;

(3) Ferry or training flights;

(4) Aerial work operations, including-

(i) Crop dusting, seeding, spraying, and bird chasing;

(ii) Banner towing;

(iii) Aerial photography or survey;

(iv) Fire fighting;

(v) Helicopter operations in construction or repair work
(but it does apply to transportation to and from the site of
operations); and

(vi) Powerline or pipeline patrol;

(5) Sightseeing flights conducted in hot air balloons;

(6) Nonstop flights conducted within a 25-statute-mile
radius of the airport of takeoff carrying persons or objects
for the purpose of conducting intentional parachute
operations.

(7) Helicopter flights conducted within a 25 statute mile
radius of the airport of takeoff if-

(i) Not more than two passengers are carried in the
helicopter in addition to the required flightcrew;

(ii) Each flight is made under day VFR conditions;

(iii) The helicopter used is certificated in the standard
category and complies with the 100-hour inspection
requirements of part 91 of this chapter;

(iv) The operator notifies the FAA Flight Standards District
Office responsible for the geographic area concerned at
least 72 hours before each flight and furnishes any
essential information that the office requests;

(v) The number of flights does not exceed a total of six in
any calendar year;

(vi) Each flight has been approved by the Administrator; and

(vii) Cargo is not carried in or on the helicopter;

(8) Operations conducted under part 133 of this chapter or
375 of this title;

(9) Emergency mail service conducted under 49 U.S.C. 41906;
or

(10) Operations conducted under the provisions of §91.321 of
this chapter.

[Docket No. 28154, 60 FR 65913, Dec. 20, 1995, as amended by
Amdt. 119-4, 66 FR 23557, May 9, 2001; Amdt. 119-5, 67 FR
9554, Mar. 1, 2002; Amdt. 119-7, 68 FR 54584, Sept. 17,
2003]


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"Steve Foley" > wrote in message
news:6lRrh.15234$32.8090@trndny09...
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message
| ...
| > If you are the photographer, flying is OK on a private
| > certificate. If you advertise and take other
photographers
| > "for hire" to get their pictures it is a 135 operation.
|
| I thought you could do photo flights under part 91 with a
commercial ticket.
| (I don't, so it doesn't matter to me)
|
|